One of the things that follows Clancy whenever we move somewhere non-southern when they find out that she is southern is “You don’t sound like you’re from the south”
To which she wants to respond (and sometimes does) “Yeah. amd I don’t have two heads or scales, either…”
They usually mean it as a compliment, though it doesn’t always come across that way. It’s generally bad form to dig at someone’s background even in an effort to differentiate themselves from it. Because sometimes, you see, sometimes we’re actually not ashamed of where we come from and what we are. Even if we’re quite dissatisfied with the aspects of it that give it such a negative reputation.
I think I’ve been on my soapbox about that before (in fact I know I have because I’ve linked to said soapbox), so let me move on.
One of Clancy’s responses is to say that not all of the south is what people think it is. We’re both kind of on the fringes of the south. Her because she’s from a German Catholic enclave and me because I’m from a big city that houses people from all across the world. I think her response raises some good points, though I fear that people will come away with the impression “Oh, so parts of Delosa are not like the rest of that backwards region of the country.” While that’s true, it’s not the whole picture.
The truth is that the south is not a monolithic thing and it’s unfortunate that the totality of the south is defined by Alabama and Mississippi (I’m going to ditch the fictional locales from this point forward in the post) to many from outside the region.
Alabama and Mississippi are only one facet of the region. If you go east to Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia you get a different kind of south with more of the gentility sometimes associated with the region (Mississippi? Not so genteel). Florida (except the northern part and particularly the panhandle) has significant Spanish and Cuban influence. Cajuns from southern Louisiana that take more from the French are their own thing and not only different from other southern states but also from the northern part of their own. Texas of course has southwestern influence. Eastern Tennessee is full of mountain types more like one would associate with West Virginia. Ditto for parts of Arkansas. Many states, such as Missouri, Kentucky, and West Virginia, may or may not count as southern depending on how you count it.
While I think that people from border states and states that pull influences from distinct places are sometimes referred to as “less southern” I’m not sure that’s the best way to think of it. It falls into the trap of defining the the south as completely backwards and less backwards places to be considered less southern (by which, less backwards). It’s no coincidence that most major candidates for the presidency that come from the south come from places considered “less southern” (Texas, Tennessee, Arkansas).
Even leaving aside for a moment that Alabama and Mississippi have things going for them as well, we really should resist the temptation to think of these less populated areas as the epitome of the region.
I understand the need to categorize regions and to think of the south as an entity the same way that I think of the mountain west or north as an entity. I just wish more people would keep in mind that because it’s a thing that does not mean that it is a monolithic thing.
As there are sections of the geographical South which do not really share in what we usually think of as Southern culture, so also there are pockets of Southern culture outside the geographical South. Much of Indiana is that way, especially from Indianapolis on down, as are parts of central Pennsylvania (a state described as “Philadephia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between.”) Even New Hampshire, of all places, is politically much more like the South than the rest of the Northeast.
Comment by Peter — August 27, 2008 @ 6:55 am
Eastern Tennessee is full of mountain types more like one would associate with West Virginia. Ditto for parts of Arkansas.
Which means…what exactly? What is a “mountain type”?
Yeah, I know, loaded question since I’ve lived in said East Tennessee for nigh’ on 41 years now. And while I’ve only lived in the largest city in these here parts - Knoxville - and not in any of the surrounding counties, I’m a bit sheltered from the greater influence of the “mountain culture”. I do see and interact with people from other areas of the region, and while we do have our quirks I haven’t seen enough “mountain types” to qualify us as “full” of them.
I think the region’s a bit more diverse than you realize.
Comment by Barry — August 27, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
My perception of Eastern Tennessee is mostly informed by my ex-coworker who was raised out there (somewhere adjacent to a place called Sullivan County) and spoke of it frequently as well as a couple trips I took out there. The locals out there reminded me of West Virginia more than (say) Mississippi and my ex-coworker’s descriptions reinforced that view, but I will certainly concede that’s not a whole lot of exposure and that there’s more to it than that.
Which actually brings me back to my point about whether or not there is a singularly “true” south by which all things Dixie can be gauges “more” or “less” southern.
Comment by trumwill — August 27, 2008 @ 9:57 pm
Will:
When they say, “You don’t sound like you’re from the South,” could it be that they’re just referring to accent, or is it clear in full context that they mean more than that? One of the things that surprised me when I moved to Atlanta for school was how many of the locals didn’t have had identifiably Southern accents.
In re Cascadian weather, are you happy now?
Comment by Brandon Berg — August 28, 2008 @ 1:32 am
Brandon,
They refer primarily to accent. At least I believe that to be the case because Clancy gets more of it and her accent is less identifiable. Maybe I should run-down why it’s agitating even though it’s rarely meant to be rude and is indeed sometimes a compliment.
1. Southern accents are not only identified as distinct, but usually as wrong, lazy, and uneducated. I think that’s true even when controlled for grammar.
2. There’s a feeling like because we’re from the south we are supposed to talk (and act) a certain way and that we don’t is somehow noteworthy. Non-southerners think the way that we talk is less noteworthy than do southerners.
3. Where (I think) Clancy’s comment is coming from is that it feels like we’re bizarre and alien. It sorta relates to the second point, but it’s sort of its own thing. We were at a dinner the other day and someone at the table (from Connecticut) commented about Clancy’s lack-of-accent… then actually pleaded with her to replicate one for her.
4. There’s always a fear that it’s a prelude to a much more agitating conversation. Sometimes people use our lack of accent and our confirmation that we speak “correct” English as a way to try to get stories about how backwards the south is and how glad we must be to have left it. Even if that’s not where they’re headed, there is the fear that it might be. In the aforementioned conversation, I overheard a woman (from Montana) say to a man from Missouri “I just hear racism is so bad out there…”.
Anyhow, I know that 90% of the time nothing is really meant about it. It’s either a random thought or just an attempt to fill conversational void. Nonetheless, it’s agitating.
Aggravating that is the feeling like we’re supposed to talk and act a different way because of where we came from
We know that nothing is meant by it and it’s sometimes meant as a compliment… but sorta like the black-articulate thing. Well intentioned (at least towards us)
We know that most of the time nothing mean is meant by it and in fact it’s more likely to be meant as a compliment.
Nonetheless, I doubt people tell people originally from Massachusetts or Minnesota are singled out for their respective accents
Comment by trumwill — August 28, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
As for the Cascadian weather… YES!… this is what I was promised! I wore long sleeves today! In August!
Comment by trumwill — August 28, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
I think with me, it’s all about the tone of voice. If someone remarks on my accent (or lack thereof), and they just sound kind of curious, that’s one thing. More often than not, though, the comment is said in a rather shocked tone of voice. . . as though they expected me to have two heads, or something else equally wrong and bad, and were floored that I did not. . . as though they couldn’t believe that someone from the South could be as intelligent as they evidently assumed I was prior to finding out my roots. Unfortunately, a Southern-sounding accent is not an asset in any kind of academic or professional setting outside the South. As an engineering professor, my dad ran into that all the time, as he does have a bit more of an accent than I do. I think people associate Southern accents with a lack of education or intelligence, and that’s just not necessarily the case. My medical school class was a case in point; the school took only in-state residents, and some of my classmates had extremely thick accents. Uneducated and unintelligent? I’d say not.
Comment by Clancy — August 31, 2008 @ 8:10 pm